Meant to post this the other day and only remembered when I seen Remco's post about Orjan's FB statement.

Seems like Markus has hasd a bit of a backlash from fans on his own forum re his new album

Originally posted by Markus Schulz

Hey everyone,

I am glad to see you guys are still actively discussing topics here on the MS forums. I have kept away from forums for some time now because I dont think they accurately represent what is going on in the EDM scene. Nonetheless I check them regularly just to get the pulse of what the oldschool-dare I call you guys...elitist fans, are feeling.

Let's clarify some things about this album.

First the elephant in the room....the commercial vocal tracks.
Here is the plain truth of the matter. The main promoters are now only booking based on an artists radio plays. DJ mag is irrelevant in most situations, although it is still an important part of the overall picture. I get messages all the time from people...When are you coming to my city?? Well...the honest answer is, I won't be coming to your city unless a smaller promotor brings me to a smaller club or I get radio support and the main promotors book me. What I mean by radio support is regular rotation on the radio station's playlist. Guys like Dash Berlin, Avicii...etc have all blown up seemingly overnight just because of radio play. Many of these "producer" type DJs are playing mainstage sets ONLY because of their radio presence. Whether or not they can even mix is irrelevant. This has made me evaluate where I am as an artist. I love the music and the scene, and I also know that the gigs will dry up if I do not evolve as an artist. I started reaching out to singers and songwriters and the demos I got back were amazing. When they sent me the rough demo of "Until It's gone" I was blown away. But I also knew it was much more commercial than I have ever done. But how do you let a song like that which is perfect for radio get away? Seriously? If you want to see me playing on the mainstages and in the big clubs in your city then I need songs like that. The challenge now was making the track into something that I could be proud of, and I am 100% proud of the result.

I think the one thing that bothers me the most about everything is that, ok the more commercial tracks are not your thing, but even the tracks that I was 100% sure you guys would love get negative reactions. Meanwhile when I play these tracks out, in front of 20,000 people....or in the intimate settings of the rabbithole of clubs like Stereo in Montreal, crowds lose their mind. Their is an obvious disconnect between what is happening out there and what is happening in here. So what should I do? Keep making music for the message board fans who are slowly fading out of the scene and are so picky that they will complain about the volume of a snare drum while listening on laptop speakers or focus on the fans who come out and stay for an entire 10 hour set enjoying the moments we spend together? There is no cooler feeling than when I play CARRY ON and watching the crowd go crazy as the track builds up and climaxes, or the screams when the riff from LOOPS AND TINGS comes in. When I play FINISH LINE at the end of my sets I hear people singing the riff as they walk out of the club. Things like this is what make me smile, and get me excited to go back in the studio. Things like that are why I am making music. How can you not realize the magnitude of how music touches people lives when you get messages about people getting the lyrics to NOTHING WITHOUT ME tattoo?

I realized that not every track will be for everyone. That is why I made an album diverse and with 23 tracks. most albums are 10 tracks. I am sure you guys can find 10 tracks on here you would put on your ipod and enjoy. Let me try for you:

Carry On
Loops and Tings
Silence to the call
Deep in The night
Nothing Without Me
Triotonic
Soul Searching
Don't Leave Until the Sunrise
Digital Madness
Finish Line

What if the album was only those tracks? Instead I made a diverse album that will help me continue grow as an artist.

Another frustrating thing is that all summer long, on GDJB we have brought you some of the most amazing deeper tunes I have heard in a long time. Artists like Guy J, Wellenrausch, Styller, Tarkan...etc are amazing. Rex Mundi is on fire again. Nobody else supports these artists like we do, yet if you ask someone from an any of the message boards, I am David Guetta now. Like common people...lets be serious!

I don't know. I guess I will stay active here in this thread and debate/discuss whatever you want about this. I still do respect you guys and your knowledge and passion for the music. But I think the message boards have become totally disconnected with reality of the scene.


Markus


*going to get some popcorn.

Not sure what to think of this if I am honest. Not had time to listen to the album yet so really can’t comment except from the tracks I have already heard.

I guess you can see both sides of the argument. Some fans disappointed that he has produced more commercial tracks but I guess you can see the reasoning behind this.

To me Markus is easily the best about at the moment but in Scotland he is still pretty much unknown. I hounded our local promoters for months to get him rebooked and luckily for me they did. They unfortunately see this as a gamble though as booking a more commercial DJ should increase ticket sales.

Obviously producing the odd commercial track would increase the possibility of radio play and in turn increase his overall profile but where does it stop? Another Bieber remix lol

So is this Markus actually selling out or just ensuring he is able to give the fans what they want by increasing the chance of a booking.

I get more and more the feeling that it is the trance fans who are pushing the trance DJs/producers away from trance. They start to be fed up with all the unreasonable complaints. And I agree fully with Markus on this. I haven't listened to the album yet, but indeed there are a shitload of tracks on it, so there must be enough good tracks for everybody. He's right also about the bookings. It just works like that.

The only point of discussion for me here is, when is a track commercial or not? Mostly the vocal tracks are seen as commercial. But which 2 tracks of Markus are here regularely on the radio for the past few years? Indeed, The New World and Do You Dream. Instrumental tracks. And I don't hear any Trash Boring here... I think the only vocal classic trance tracks I hear on the radio are Silence and As The Rush Comes. For the rest it's Flight 643, Traffic, Carte Blanche, Sensation Anthem, Café Del Mar, etc. etc.

Thing is, and that happens to a lot of producers at the moment, they make tons of great tracks, but they get criticized and rated for the few not so good tracks. And then Markus is the one where it all went wrong

Markus is great. I listened to the album and I can say there are quite a number of tracks I enjoyed and will be on my playlist.

I have not yet listened to the album either, but I think Markus is absolutely right on this topic.

Basically in the end, music producers are their own businesses. You have to keep up with the times, otherwise your business fails. If your business fails, you have to end up doing something you don't love anymore or loose everything. Thats reality. If promoters now demand you have radio play (this would be a big reason why you really don't see trance anymore here in the states except for a few small cites that have electronic radio stations) you don't get booked, and lets face it, bookings are where the money is at.

Its great to produce a track that the classic lovers will scream about, but in the end you may only make a bit of money on that one track to survive for a small amount. Its risky, and once again, his business becomes in jeopardy.

Basically, in the end, its a business, and business are about making money. That pretty much sums it up. The guys who did this mostly for the love of the genera and just as a side project because they just loved doing it, have pretty much gone. They stopped as it has evolved past what they loved, and instead of altering to a newer sound, they went back to something else.

We ,unfortunately, have lost great producers because of this, but in the end it is their life and they have to do hat makes them happy.

Times have changed and the tracks that Markus used to produce in the early to mid 00's were absolutely mind blowing IMHO and lately, to me, not so much. Having said that, thats because I am basically almost refusing to let go of what I truly and deeply love. The sound Markus produced 10 years ago was just amazing. deep, dark and full of feeling. I know tracks like I used to go nuts over are pretty much gone. So many loved record labels do not exist anymore. Vinyl record shops are gone. Things have changed so drastically in the last ten years.

Like myself, all these "forum" people need to change with the times. I think we are getting a good idea of what our parents always complained about. There is always that era of music that you will hold on to, that will stick with and be your favorite forever. The generation that is coming out into the EDM scene now are loving and embracing this era, in ten years, they will be the new forum guys.

I give lots of credit for the producers that started in the '90s and are keeping up and banging out the tunes for the current generation. They have all changed. Tiësto, Armin, Markus, Oakenfold, Sasha, ATB, Chicane and the list goes on. They have changed either with a huge step, or just modified what they are doing to keep current.

Think about it, if Trance never evolved, it would still be at its 145 BPM roots of repetitive sounds that gave it its genre namesake. I think if the producers would of stayed with that style, Trance would of been long dead.

So yes, evolution is good thing, while making "commercial" tracks is now necessary to stay in the scene and to fill the arenas and these are all businesses out to make money.

Now, granted, some of these guys do it because they love filling stadiums, and do it because they get an amazing feeling when doing it and could care less about the money. People like Armin and Markus have both said in the past that they would do it for free because they just love it so much. Lets face it though, doing it for free would not buy them the equipment and time needed to produce and travel constantly to deliver such good times to us. The ones who really love what they are doing are the people who tend to be a bit more subtle in their evolutions. They try to still produce tracks that will please the ones who got them to where they are today and also please the promoters and radio stations to keep them filling those arenas and air fields to make sure we all have a banging time.

As long as we have producers who are willing to blend, to keep a load of people happy, and not just the radio stations and not just the elitist forum people, Trance will be around for years to come.



Unlike Brostep and electro top 40 tracks

Ok wow really need to give a listen to the album, i just want to say once again how much i love him being honest about the whole promotion/money thing. I was really pissed with Ferry when he tweeted about "having fun" while remixing Bieber, would much prefer it if he just admitted that he mainly did it for the money

Completely agree with Markus here 100% . Ive had a listen to the album and yea it is different. I think that's why aliases work wonders it allows artists to do something different....very different if need be. Im a HUGE fan of his Dakota stuff absolutely love it! But im sure not everyone will...It's music. I love how he stated that all summer long that on GDJB he has played some of the deepest tracks in a long time...FACT! Absolutely amazing stuff this year (for those who like there deep/prog).........See what i did there?

I Loved Ericc B's reply Schulz just got owned.

As a home listener I don't think any of the tracks on Schulz's album are radio friendly he needs to learn what actually means. They are far too aggressive. I haven't been a fan of Schulz's production for a 4 years now. A pop dance track like Iio - Rapture is what I call radio friendly none of the vocal tracks released these days I would call radio friendly.

Quote

Dear Markus,

First of all I take my hat off to you for coming here and replying to our criticism. That really shows character and makes you stand out among your colleagues, who comfortably hide behind their hired Facebook marketing employees. At least you have the balls to interact. Much much appreciated.

Nevertheless I am saddened deeply by your replies.

First off I'm actually insulted by you categorizing us as "forum people". Yes people who actually still visit forums and take the time to write stuff there and read others comments are small in numbers nowadays compared to the lazy masses on the social media who only consume pre-fabricated marking bla and add zero themselves except maybe “MaRkUsSsS wHeN aRe YoU cOmmmInG 2 mY cOuNtYYYY???!!!!” below every post. And we “forum people” probably are not the current 15 year olds either. Heck 99% of those don't even know what a forum is. But that doesn't excuse the current industry trend to put us away as an insignificant bunch of frustrated old people who complain about everything that is different from 2004 and doesn't resemble what they used to love in the past. What we are are people who have loved you music all our lives and are probably the last ones standing of those who made it possible for you to become a DJ and a producer. We were the ones buying your first albums, singles and compilations when you were still small potatoes. We were the ones screaming our heads off at your gigs. We were the ones who fell in love with your music and your sets when you were still making them from them heart, from what you truly believe in, from who you really are. Uninfluenced by popularity poll ratings, drugged up managers and promoters or sales figures.

What you are now saying basically is that you have to compromise yourself under the commercial pressure of the pop dance explosion. That you now produce new “radio friendly” vocal tracks to please the networks, that you adjust your GDJB programming to avoid being kicked of the air and that you compromise your live sets because money hungry promoters bow to the pressure of crowds that only consist of 15 year old nitwits who get bored if they don’t get their fabricated built in SHM style pitch bend climax every 3 minutes. And that is a big big shame.

Why? Let me tell you man. You cannot stay on top of the food chain forever. Noone can. Yes you can prolongue your career by compromising into every new trend and the next, the way guys like Tiesto and Armin are doing, but like them you will become a total caricature of yourself. Because what you have to do to stay up there goes more and more against everything you really are inside. And even if you keep on compromising, at some point people WILL spit you out because you are like us. Too old. Not cool anymore. You will end up the Rubens Barichello of dance music and get dumped in a back alley through the backdoor without so much as an appreciative farewell party.

Obviously you are not the first to come to this point in your career. How do you think people like Sasha or Nick Warren or John Digweed felt at the end of the 90’s acid rush in the UK? When all of a sudden new guys like Ferry Corsten and Paul van Dyk stormed the scene with their new and more energetic interpretation of trance music? It’s the exact same thing. But what they did is keep their dignity. They accepted that a new thing had arrived and that the new thing was more popular with the crowds. But they NEVER COMPROMISED. They kept on doing music the way their hearts told them to do music. For the people who appreciate that style. Maybe less in numbers from there on, but loyal as a dog. Because they are connected through the same musical values.

And guess what? All of them are still around, touring the globe and playing in clubs to crowds adoring them for what they do. Without any compromise. They don’t give a flying fuck if radio stations wanna play their radio shows or not. They don’t need to release radio tracks with cheap nameless singers who can’t sing fuck live (you should go and see an Armin Only show if you have a chance, it’s hilarious). They don’t have to star in cheezy videos for those tracks. They don’t have to do gigs for hostile crowds holding up phones all night long and giving you the finger for not giving them instant climax tracks or childish heart signs every 10 seconds. They don’t care. Because they are completely independent and they do what they love. And the people who come to see them and buy their new stuff love it from A to Z. And they always have. That Markus, is where real gratification lies. Not in trying to be the hero of the 15 year olds. They will spit you out the moment the new fad comes on stage and forget you ever existed.

Unfortunately your career seems to have been taken over completely by power and fame hungry managers and promoters who are only interested in being the biggest and making the most money. Who force release schedules upon you. Who force you to make radio friendly vocal crap. Tracks that you should be ashamed off. Who force you to adjust your radio show format. Who force you to headline festivals. And force you to play this constantly further derailing aggressive shit music that every producer and his dog is now making and has diverted so far off from your own original Markus Schulz sound.

You know what? Fuck them. You don’t need that shit. Do you really feel a need to compete or even compare yourself with Dash Berlin? The Milli Vanilli of trance? A completely fake act fabricated by Armada marketing and a bunch of studio engineers? Come on man, you are so much better than that. You are one of the few remaining originals. One of the few who actually knows how to DJ, how to produce a track with a unique and distinctive sound and how to compile a legendary compilation.

Remember that DJ gigs and festivals are not what will eventually be your musical legacy. They are here for a second and are gone the next. Vaporized into total silence. Witnessed by what on a global scale is only a handful of people. What really forms your musical legacy are your own productions and your compilations. And to some lesser extent your radio sets too. Those are heard time and again by a thousand fold of people compared to the numbers at your gigs. And locked into eternity in peoples homes, cars and mobile players.

Compromise those and you compromise the essence of yourself as an artist. If you don’t untie yourself from this commercial madness you will eventually end up in the trash bin with all the other pop stars.

Originally posted by R33

I have not yet listened to the album either, but I think Markus is absolutely right on this topic.

Basically in the end, music producers are their own businesses. You have to keep up with the times, otherwise your business fails. If your business fails, you have to end up doing something you don't love anymore or loose everything. Thats reality. If promoters now demand you have radio play (this would be a big reason why you really don't see trance anymore here in the states except for a few small cites that have electronic radio stations) you don't get booked, and lets face it, bookings are where the money is at.

Its great to produce a track that the classic lovers will scream about, but in the end you may only make a bit of money on that one track to survive for a small amount. Its risky, and once again, his business becomes in jeopardy.

Basically, in the end, its a business, and business are about making money. That pretty much sums it up. The guys who did this mostly for the love of the genera and just as a side project because they just loved doing it, have pretty much gone. They stopped as it has evolved past what they loved, and instead of altering to a newer sound, they went back to something else.

We ,unfortunately, have lost great producers because of this, but in the end it is their life and they have to do hat makes them happy.

Times have changed and the tracks that Markus used to produce in the early to mid 00's were absolutely mind blowing IMHO and lately, to me, not so much. Having said that, thats because I am basically almost refusing to let go of what I truly and deeply love. The sound Markus produced 10 years ago was just amazing. deep, dark and full of feeling. I know tracks like I used to go nuts over are pretty much gone. So many loved record labels do not exist anymore. Vinyl record shops are gone. Things have changed so drastically in the last ten years.

Like myself, all these "forum" people need to change with the times. I think we are getting a good idea of what our parents always complained about. There is always that era of music that you will hold on to, that will stick with and be your favorite forever. The generation that is coming out into the EDM scene now are loving and embracing this era, in ten years, they will be the new forum guys.

I give lots of credit for the producers that started in the '90s and are keeping up and banging out the tunes for the current generation. They have all changed. Tiësto, Armin, Markus, Oakenfold, Sasha, ATB, Chicane and the list goes on. They have changed either with a huge step, or just modified what they are doing to keep current.

Think about it, if Trance never evolved, it would still be at its 145 BPM roots of repetitive sounds that gave it its genre namesake. I think if the producers would of stayed with that style, Trance would of been long dead.

So yes, evolution is good thing, while making "commercial" tracks is now necessary to stay in the scene and to fill the arenas and these are all businesses out to make money.

Now, granted, some of these guys do it because they love filling stadiums, and do it because they get an amazing feeling when doing it and could care less about the money. People like Armin and Markus have both said in the past that they would do it for free because they just love it so much. Lets face it though, doing it for free would not buy them the equipment and time needed to produce and travel constantly to deliver such good times to us. The ones who really love what they are doing are the people who tend to be a bit more subtle in their evolutions. They try to still produce tracks that will please the ones who got them to where they are today and also please the promoters and radio stations to keep them filling those arenas and air fields to make sure we all have a banging time.

As long as we have producers who are willing to blend, to keep a load of people happy, and not just the radio stations and not just the elitist forum people, Trance will be around for years to come.



Unlike Brostep and electro top 40 tracks

Trance music was never about bpms FYI a lot of older tracks were at a low bpm.

Originally posted by Progrez

I Loved Ericc B's reply Schulz just got owned.

To be honest, Schulz didn't get owned at all here, because Ericc B is missing some essential facts.

First, compromised, yes maybe, but as Markus said, he still has to be proud of the results, else he's not releasing it.

Second, he's insulted by being called 'forum people', but at the same time he insults thousends of event go-ers by calling them 15 year old nitwits. Including me. The fact he's missing here is that in no event or club in the world, they let 15 year olds enter the venue. He should come to Holland one day where the average age at trance events is around 32 years old. Where there are even a lot of 50+ people. People who have followed trance since the beginning and still do. Apparently unlike Ericc B, who's nowadays only listening to it at home or in his car, so he can't even know what he's talking about. And lets face it, first reason to produce dance music is to make people dance on it...

Third, he's talking about John Digweed as not compromising, but I saw him a few years ago and nothing he played was trance anymore. He didn't seem to enjoy what he was doing, I didn't see him smile even once and didn't look at the crowd even once. All he did there was playing for his money and leave...

So owning Markus' reply? No way! There are too many untrue facts in his story. Just another rant from somebody who's still stuck in the 90's and who doesn't know what he is talking about anymore.

Originally posted by Progrez

I Loved Ericc B's reply Schulz just got owned.

As a home listener I don't think any of the tracks on Schulz's album are radio friendly he needs to learn what actually means. They are far too aggressive. I haven't been a fan of Schulz's production for a 4 years now. A pop dance track like Iio - Rapture is what I call radio friendly none of the vocal tracks released these days I would call radio friendly.

Erm no, i have to disagree. People don't perceive as "aggressive" that kind of sound anymore, i see more and more of my friends who hated any kind of electroninc sound enjoying it now. The vocal tracks Markus produced for Scream, it seems to me, is exactly what crowds are starting to enjoy more and more nowadays.

Originally posted by Remco

To be honest, Schulz didn't get owned at all here, because Ericc B is missing some essential facts.

First, compromised, yes maybe, but as Markus said, he still has to be proud of the results, else he's not releasing it.

Second, he's insulted by being called 'forum people', but at the same time he insults thousends of event go-ers by calling them 15 year old nitwits. Including me. The fact he's missing here is that in no event or club in the world, they let 15 year olds enter the venue. He should come to Holland one day where the average age at trance events is around 32 years old. Where there are even a lot of 50+ people. People who have followed trance since the beginning and still do. Apparently unlike Ericc B, who's nowadays only listening to it at home or in his car, so he can't even know what he's talking about. And lets face it, first reason to produce dance music is to make people dance on it...

Third, he's talking about John Digweed as not compromising, but I saw him a few years ago and nothing he played was trance anymore. He didn't seem to enjoy what he was doing, I didn't see him smile even once and didn't look at the crowd even once. All he did there was playing for his money and leave...

So owning Markus' reply? No way! There are too many untrue facts in his story. Just another rant from somebody who's still stuck in the 90's and who doesn't know what he is talking about anymore.

I don't think he meant people like you when he wrote about 15years old Remco he talks about young crowd who just started to listening to edm now and who will change their taste slowly later on, and this is the situation i see in Cyprus too.

Quote

crowds that only consist of 15 year old nitwits

I know he doesn't mean me, but I just meant he's wrong about the crowds. Never seen any 15 year old in any crowd (all events are 18+, if not, 21+), while he claims it only consists of 15 year olds. He confuses crowds with social media fans (which also isn't only 15 year olds btw). Who only listen to it at home, basically like he does apparently.

There are just too many flaws in his statement.

Originally posted by Remco

I know he doesn't mean me, but I just meant he's wrong about the crowds. Never seen any 15 year old in any crowd (all events are 18+, if not, 21+), while he claims it only consists of 15 year olds. He confuses crowds with social media fans (which also isn't only 15 year olds btw). Who only listen to it at home, basically like he does apparently.

There are just too many flaws in his statement.

It seems like a figure of speech to me ^^

Originally posted by Progrez

Trance music was never about bpms FYI a lot of older tracks were at a low bpm.

BPMs or not ( I was mainly referring to the older Psy / Acid / Goa styles that were very popular in the 90's) but if you look back at, what I started spinning and producing with almost 20 years ago, it was no where even close to what is called Trance today. Classic artists like Dance 2 Trance, Spicelab, Underworld, Datura etc.. produced sounds that really evoked being in a "trance". Todays version of the genre, not so much.

It changed. Just as todays music is changing. Music always does. Thats what I was getting at. Not just BPMs.

Originally posted by R33

It changed. Just as todays music is changing. Music always does. Thats what I was getting at. Not just BPMs.

True. Compare for example R&B from the 70s/80s and now. It's 100% different.

Originally posted by Remco

True. Compare for example R&B from the 70s/80s and now. It's 100% different.

Exactly. It can be said for almost every genre of music. I , of course, always now know why my dad always listened to his "Classic" rock and roll compared to todays