Ok, this is just me giving into my curiosity (which is at times insaitable) and asking a question I've been wondering about. For those that are already mixing I ask this:

Do you find it easier to mix Harmonically or by standard Beatmatching? I'd assume the song tends to dictate which you CAN do but I'm asking what's your personal preference when mixing and listening.

For those who don't but are avid (and obviously well learned) listeners: Which do you prefer?

I ask this because I'm in the process of getting my system and everything set up (slowly but surely) and I'm listening to not only other Dj's songs but ones I might like to play around with. I find that the song typically tells me which may work better (others are so unique they demand a pause before their showstopping  song...) but the mass majority of songs I hear are mainly just beatmatched. It's a strange but beautiful change when it's blended Harmonically (be it only harmonically or if it's harmonically and beatmached). I was just curious which one seems to hold the most preference if any.  I realize ths is consitered an advanced technique and I don't nessicarily believe I'd be able to do it without serious practice (MAJOR Kudos to those of you who can. I'm not worthy... )  But I have found that when I'm listening to songs I can tell which ones are in complementry keys or if they have have the same key center (Tonic). I used to think I was weird in that I can't NAME the key but I can tell if two songs are the same key. Maybe I'm weird...I dunno

In most cases it has to be mix in key, or else it sounds terrible in my opinion.

It wasn't so easy in the earlier days, but it is now. Check this out: www.mixedinkey.com

Most of the time it has to be beatmatched too, but it is lots of ways to do that. There are no rules! it just has to sound like you want it to...

Which is so liberating and yet so daunting...I can do so much but it could all sound like crap so easily...

Yeah as I did research into it more I found that they where making programs to do the key matching (and beat matching) for you...I'm not sure how I feel about that... it almost feels like cheating since like beatmatching you learn it practice it and it becomes instinct; couldn't mixing in key be the same? Yet I also agree that when your in the groove you don't want to sit there and figure out which song will mesh next AND fit the key.

I agree. Sometimes when some mix they may beatmatch perfectly but it still somehow sounds off. Perhaps because the song their mixing in wasn't recorded with the same tonal center as the one their already playing. Vocals are notorious for this trick.

Lady Kvara, there will be an never ending power struggle between traditional dj's and digital dj's. There will always be an argument that if you don't know how to beat match than your not a real dj. But honestly when you go to a party/club/rave are you really there to enjoy the music or are you there to see the dj beatmatch?. The Dj should just be a medium to bring the dancefloor to life and provide hours on end of great music, to me thats the most important aspect about a dj. I dont like any particular dj less because their spinning off their laptop. And I am not saying all this just because I'm a digital DJ, but thats just what I thought about dj's even prior to picking up this hobby.

And to answer your question about mixing in key and beat matching. You need to implement both techniques while mixing.

1. Beatmatching is essential so that the bass kicks and snares are in sync that way you dont have a train wreck headed your way. Also you you need to know when is the correct time to launch the songs. Trance is based on a 4/4 beat aka "Four to the Floor" with four beats to 1 bar. In most cases you should launch the incoming song on the first down beat of the bar of the song you are mixing out of or else you will have the same problems of clashing snares which is also just as bad as a train wreck.

2. Mixing in key is not as essential as beatmatching. But it does allow for flawless transitions where you cant even notice when one song ends and the other begins. It is hard for people without a musical background to recognize the key of a song, and thats why there are programs such as mixed in key to help people like us with that. But mixing in key too often will make your mix sound monotonous, often times you will find that even if the songs are not in key, they still work great together. What is more important than mixing in key is to know your tracks like the back of your hands. You need to know if the elements from the two diff songs work well together and when to start bringing in those elements and removing certain elements. And that is where proper EQing comes into play. My advice is dont give up, practice practice practice if you truly have a passion for it. I mix for the pure passion and love of trance, and if you have that desire you will definitely succeed.

If your interested, go check out that mix that I've put together. It has methods such as beat matching, EQing, mixing in key and also mixing not in key but still making the songs work well together. And I now hold a monthly show on www.Trance.fm last Tuesday of every month 22:00 - 23:00 CET. Check it out and let me know what you think. And remember, practice practice practice even if you think you've come to a stump in the road!

#url-removed

Cool I'll check it out, thanks!

I don't dislike or like any DJs any more or less due to their chosen medium either, but I can see how some traditionalists feel AND how Digital Djs feel (hey I'm probably going to start CD DJing myself since I have CDs mostly and I'd have to start from scratch with vinyl. So I ain't hatn'! lol) so I sympathize with both. I am more of the kind of person that I'd like the people to know exactly what the computers doing for them rather than being of the mindset that "I don't care how it works so long as it works." Willful ignorance. I love that the DJ can string together songs creating a whole performance that's all his/her own. This is part of what makes the DJ powerful.

It depends. If you're doing a set with lots of melodic and emotional trance, beat matching isn't as crucial as picking songs that can change the moods over time. If I'm doing a set with lots of hard stuff (really epic anthemic hard trance, tech-trance, electro), beat matching is more important, because it changes the rhythm like so.

For instance, in a recent set I did called "Fever Pitch", I wanted lots of tracks with very summery, intense rave feels. So, I had sections where the set would sound very tribal and outdoors like. One transition was Darren Tate vs. Jono Grant - Nocturnal Creatures to Sigum - First Strike 2004, and connecting the songs was done in such a way that you got that final drum loop from Nocturnal Creatures before the first massive release of First Strike 2004 completed the transition, so you could feel that intense power.
More shameless self-promotion: http://www.trancepodium.com/forum/topic,9147.0/

But really, this said, when I first listened to trance around 2003/2004, I was less aware of poor beat matching than now. Still though, bad beat matching doesn't bother me, just as long as the tempos are basically the same.

Originally posted by Rover

Harmonic mixing becomes important if you want to mix melodies and mix further into tracks than those first/last 32 measures.  Armin does this really well, for example.  That's how he can do those 2 minute edits and mix out of them, he keeps the melodies in key.

And to me that's where the fun is, hearing these melodies interact with each other...

Mike

Quick replay and just to state my thoughts.

!) beat matching is very important, and should be learned first.  Without this, the kicks dont match and you train wreck. This will kill the atmosphere, and will probably not allow you to be brought back to that club for a while.  Without beat matching, its just "radio fading" and there really is not any skill at all.

2) harmonic mixing.  While this is great, and something I have been trying to add to my mixes for years, I find it can make sets sound a bit boring.  The transitions them selves sound great, as you can never really figure out which song is playing.  ( I have done sets harmonically and had 3 or 4 tracks going at the same time and it was amazing.) I do, however, tend to act in the moment.  I feel as though one song might be the perfect track to drop in next and will complement the current tracks energy and feeling excellently.  If its not harmonic, well, screw it really.  I drop it anyway, and always get a great vibe going. 

In the end, you really just have to go with your gut.  If you feel that the next key correct track would just not fit, then throw it and grab one that bangs on.

"Radio Fading" that's what most of the mobile "DJ's" where I was from as a child are notorious for (ironically though at the time I had NO idea there was more than that). Beatmatching, without a doubt, is essential. A good set just isn't good without it and it will certainly have several hurdles to go over to be consitered 'excellent.' But then that's just my humble, and admittedly, little exsperence (yet) opinion.

I can see how a continuous harmonious mix can get boring. It's the same key or same key center could lull the listener into a more Ambient feeling (the I just want to sit here and chill rather than I want to keep dancing). And going up a scale would take too much time and frankly you would loose the people as you would have to play music that doesn't fit the mood at that time just to make it...'fit'  into the musical scale your doing be it half a step of a whole. Though if you can go up the scale harmonically AND keep the people dancing because every song is dead on everytime you are a-freak'n-mazing and should probably get an agent...