......

Care to elaborate to justify your argument?

a lot of it is... It takes a lot of hunting for me to find some quality tunes.

Originally posted by calgarc

a lot of it is... It takes a lot of hunting for me to find some quality tunes.

You could say that for any genre. There's a lot of music out there, and not everything is good.

Originally posted by Marjan

You could say that for any genre. There's a lot of music out there, and not everything is good.

thats not a good thing either 0_0

I've thought about this for a long time, and I havn't really been able to figure it out and put it down in words, why modern trance don't appeal to me as much as old and why there is so. But now I think I hit the nail on the head. Modern trance is: YES - ONEDIMENSIONAL!! I was browsing around and previewing modern trance tracks and got a bit frustrated and after a while I came by Indiana - Do You Hear Me Now (Classified Project Remix), released on Platipus in 2002, turned it on and the track spoke to me, and told me that modern trance is onedimensional.

All this started to become more and more evident from around 2006-07 and just got worse by time. The thing about modern productions is (I'm not a producer) so I can't really explain in correct technical terms, but what I mean about onedimensional is that many tracks feels rushed and everything else in the production gets drowned out by the often very loud and simple kick and bassline. Many productions has the problem of creating space and when I hear a modern production I can't discern and take apart all the different elements as I can and could with older productions. There is no contrast between all the elements but rather everything is just mashed into one big lump (= one dimensional). The structure is often very onedimensional and linear aswell while compared to older production they are more of the opposite.

That result is a poor experience for me personally. While there is still enjoyable music out there this can be applied to even the music that is not just for the big masses ie trouse,big-room etc, but even for the underground.

I think this has alot to do with hardware/analog vs sofware/digital discussion. The tunes that I find the most enjoyable in all aspects is those made with hardware/analog methods/equipment. Modern productions are so compressed and you may think that the more elements or the more complex a track is the better, but I don't think that is true. Or maybe its just me and my ability to only enjoy old trance aka trance for dummies (enough elements/sounds or limited discernable elements to be captured properly by the ear). I feel that modern productions is too complex and overcompressed and its harder to discern the elements from eachother. Its harder overall to really "feel" the music as you once could.

I'm really surprised that there is no disscussion about this at all. I find this to be a big problem actually and I don't see any return to the more unpolished,raw but organic recording methods of old.

Originally posted by isrealtrancecomingback

what I mean about onedimensional is that many tracks feels rushed and everything else in the production gets drowned out by the often very loud and simple kick and bassline.

I understand what you mean. And in the light of tracks feeling rushed and too complicated nowadays, what do you think of Rank 1 - 13.11.11? Besides that finally there's a track again from 10+ minutes, I feel with this one that Benno really took the time, he could've pushed everything in 8 minutes probably, but he didn't. Every part of this track got the time it deserved and it also sounds quite simple without too many elements and these things are exactly why I love it so much.

This is the same frustrated person who constantly repeated how trance used to be better in the past on TF: http://www.trancefix.nl/showthread.php?295665-Modern-trance-is-ONEDIMENSIONAL!!&p=1598013&viewfull=1#post1598013

“If you worry about what might be, and wonder what might have been, you will ignore what is.”

Originally posted by isrealtrancecomingback

I've thought about this for a long time, and I havn't really been able to figure it out and put it down in words, why modern trance don't appeal to me as much as old and why there is so. But now I think I hit the nail on the head. Modern trance is: YES - ONEDIMENSIONAL!! I was browsing around and previewing modern trance tracks and got a bit frustrated and after a while I came by Indiana - Do You Hear Me Now (Classified Project Remix), released on Platipus in 2002, turned it on and the track spoke to me, and told me that modern trance is onedimensional.

All this started to become more and more evident from around 2006-07 and just got worse by time. The thing about modern productions is (I'm not a producer) so I can't really explain in correct technical terms, but what I mean about onedimensional is that many tracks feels rushed and everything else in the production gets drowned out by the often very loud and simple kick and bassline. Many productions has the problem of creating space and when I hear a modern production I can't discern and take apart all the different elements as I can and could with older productions. There is no contrast between all the elements but rather everything is just mashed into one big lump (= one dimensional). The structure is often very onedimensional and linear aswell while compared to older production they are more of the opposite.

That result is a poor experience for me personally. While there is still enjoyable music out there this can be applied to even the music that is not just for the big masses ie trouse,big-room etc, but even for the underground.

I think this has alot to do with hardware/analog vs sofware/digital discussion. The tunes that I find the most enjoyable in all aspects is those made with hardware/analog methods/equipment. Modern productions are so compressed and you may think that the more elements or the more complex a track is the better, but I don't think that is true. Or maybe its just me and my ability to only enjoy old trance aka trance for dummies (enough elements/sounds or limited discernable elements to be captured properly by the ear). I feel that modern productions is too complex and overcompressed and its harder to discern the elements from eachother. Its harder overall to really "feel" the music as you once could.

I'm really surprised that there is no disscussion about this at all. I find this to be a big problem actually and I don't see any return to the more unpolished,raw but organic recording methods of old.

its the fact that every song follows the same path. its all produced the same in peoples bedrooms now. my cellphone can handle more channels and synths then most electronic studios could 30 years ago lol.

even with my productions i can admit to packing in alot of tracks and sounds. but i try to keep it clear and keep my mixes long.

I can agree with you on this. I too have felt that Trance has lost some of its earlier magic. With the massive influx of the computer sync button DJ, Trance going mainstream and loosing a lot of its trance roots, it really is a completely different sound and has a different feel.

Dj sets are not as exciting as they used to be from a lot of the big names. They almost bore me now a lot of times. The soul of Trance is long gone unfortunately. So many people "produce" the music now and a lot of it really sounds similar.

I think the one dimensional sound you are going for is the fact that todays tracks are lost in the loudness wars. Tracks are heavily compressed and limited to smash into the limiter to make it as loud as possible. If you were to look at waveforms from two tracks, one from now and one from the late 90s you would see how in the early track, you can see every peak and valley and it looks organic. The track has space to breathe and deliver parts of the instruments used that you normally don't hear. Add this to the delivery of the time, an un compressed vinyl recording and you had a really great sound. Compressed tracks of today are just one mashed waveform hitting the limiters the whole entire time. There is not any space left in the tracks form to breathe. Tracks now days are almost exclusively distributed into an compressed 320 MP3 file which looses a lot of the instruments nuances. This leads to that loss of "air" you are talking about and makes each track feel very identical. Be thankful you can hear this, most people can not and its a shame really.

The same is for the DJ. The computer DJ really brought upon an age of misery. DJs used to really work their sets which ebbed and flowed with the crowd. Transitions were long and calculated. It really was an art form.

Due to the cost of entry into the DJ world, not many ventured into it. Vinyls were around 5-7 USD, GBP, EUR each and the equipment was pricy (easily 2 grad to get started with good equipment). Add to this the time it took to learn how to beatmatch, figure out how to harmonically mix, phase your tracks and each set was a completely different experience.

Now days, anyone can download a piece of software along with several hundred tracks (a lot of time for no cost at all) and just start mixing using their mouse staring at waveforms and a meter that told them when the tracks are in sync. Even worse, they just press sync. This has brought out a slew of people who do not really know anything at all about DJing properly and has made EDM so mainstream it has verged on becoming a form of pop music in places. (I cringe every time I see an "DJ" playing with the knobs on the mixer using the "twist and throw" action..ugh)

Now, add in your massive pay checks, record labels and promoters just doing things to bring in the most money and you have a one dimensional / stale genre.

There is good news however. There are still gems out there and DJs who are trying to break free and re-introduce the old ways. People like John '00' Fleming and Solarstone spring to mind immediately. What they are doing cannot be done by anybody. They have a lot of passion for this music and they are not willing to let it die. I really think, that as Trance starts to slowly fall from the limelight, and the DJ craze starts to settle (hopefully sooner then later), Trance is going to go more underground and become the music I once loved with so much burning passion that just thinking about it getting that way again gets me extremely excited.

I don't know how long it will take, but it will come. Just give it time.

Originally posted by R33

I can agree with you on this. I too have felt that Trance has lost some of its earlier magic. With the massive influx of the computer sync button DJ, Trance going mainstream and loosing a lot of its trance roots, it really is a completely different sound and has a different feel.

Dj sets are not as exciting as they used to be from a lot of the big names. They almost bore me now a lot of times. The soul of Trance is long gone unfortunately. So many people "produce" the music now and a lot of it really sounds similar.

I think the one dimensional sound you are going for is the fact that todays tracks are lost in the loudness wars. Tracks are heavily compressed and limited to smash into the limiter to make it as loud as possible. If you were to look at waveforms from two tracks, one from now and one from the late 90s you would see how in the early track, you can see every peak and valley and it looks organic. The track has space to breathe and deliver parts of the instruments used that you normally don't hear. Add this to the delivery of the time, an un compressed vinyl recording and you had a really great sound. Compressed tracks of today are just one mashed waveform hitting the limiters the whole entire time. There is not any space left in the tracks form to breathe. Tracks now days are almost exclusively distributed into an compressed 320 MP3 file which looses a lot of the instruments nuances. This leads to that loss of "air" you are talking about and makes each track feel very identical. Be thankful you can hear this, most people can not and its a shame really.

The same is for the DJ. The computer DJ really brought upon an age of misery. DJs used to really work their sets which ebbed and flowed with the crowd. Transitions were long and calculated. It really was an art form.

Due to the cost of entry into the DJ world, not many ventured into it. Vinyls were around 5-7 USD, GBP, EUR each and the equipment was pricy (easily 2 grad to get started with good equipment). Add to this the time it took to learn how to beatmatch, figure out how to harmonically mix, phase your tracks and each set was a completely different experience.

Now days, anyone can download a piece of software along with several hundred tracks (a lot of time for no cost at all) and just start mixing using their mouse staring at waveforms and a meter that told them when the tracks are in sync. Even worse, they just press sync. This has brought out a slew of people who do not really know anything at all about DJing properly and has made EDM so mainstream it has verged on becoming a form of pop music in places. (I cringe every time I see an "DJ" playing with the knobs on the mixer using the "twist and throw" action..ugh)

Now, add in your massive pay checks, record labels and promoters just doing things to bring in the most money and you have a one dimensional / stale genre.

There is good news however. There are still gems out there and DJs who are trying to break free and re-introduce the old ways. People like John '00' Fleming and Solarstone spring to mind immediately. What they are doing cannot be done by anybody. They have a lot of passion for this music and they are not willing to let it die. I really think, that as Trance starts to slowly fall from the limelight, and the DJ craze starts to settle (hopefully sooner then later), Trance is going to go more underground and become the music I once loved with so much burning passion that just thinking about it getting that way again gets me extremely excited.

I don't know how long it will take, but it will come. Just give it time.

and this is why us purists, spend 2 hours every day searching for new music... its why we have podcasts. don't worry, in a few years the music industry will find some hot new genre to exploit, and electronic music will be referred to as techno like the good ol days.

What was worse for me was performing with a DJ who was using sync and the twist + throw action at once 0_0. not to mention not knowing how to wire his expensive pioneer controller up in stereo

on a side note. you listen to psy-trance on beatport and every single song has the same god damn bassline

Originally posted by calgarc

thats not a good thing either 0_0

The thing about art is that it is subjective, and every person experiences it differently. You can't objectively 'measure' its quality, and what I find good may sound terrible to you. That's why different music genres and styles exist, so that there's something for everyone's taste.

Of course, some pieces will be liked by more people than others, and I'd argue that creativity is driven by demand nowadays. If an artist creates a piece that will be liked by many people, they will get paid more.

It is a fact that many people do like those one-dimensional tracks you are referring to. If you're not among those people, tough luck, you'll have to keep digging for that hidden gem buried among thousands of other one-dimensional garbage. But isn't that the fun part?

Originally posted by Marjan

The thing about art is that it is subjective, and every person experiences it differently. You can't objectively 'measure' its quality, and what I find good may sound terrible to you. That's why different music genres and styles exist, so that there's something for everyone's taste.

Of course, some pieces will be liked by more people than others, and I'd argue that creativity is driven by demand nowadays. If an artist creates a piece that will be liked by many people, they will get paid more.

It is a fact that many people do like those one-dimensional tracks you are referring to. If you're not among those people, tough luck, you'll have to keep digging for that hidden gem buried among thousands of other one-dimensional garbage. But isn't that the fun part?

a song that was poorly mixed, or a song is a shotty compressed format, is bad regardless.

Originally posted by Remco

I understand what you mean. And in the light of tracks feeling rushed and too complicated nowadays, what do you think of Rank 1 - 13.11.11? Besides that finally there's a track again from 10+ minutes, I feel with this one that Benno really took the time, he could've pushed everything in 8 minutes probably, but he didn't. Every part of this track got the time it deserved and it also sounds quite simple without too many elements and these things are exactly why I love it so much.

Thanks for understanding. I must say that the answers here, this far, are alot better than on trancefix, where my ip-adress now is banned permanently.

The track you brought up is ok. Personally its not really my cup. The melody is way too big-room influenced for my liking and its a bit too long for its own good (I do like 10+min songs if they can manage to build it up in an interesting way) Although its not really that bad either. It hasn't got that obvious loud kickdrum etc.

Originally posted by J4mie

This is the same frustrated person who constantly repeated how trance used to be better in the past on TF: http://www.trancefix.nl/showthread.php?295665-Modern-trance-is-ONEDIMENSIONAL!!&p=1598013&viewfull=1#post1598013

“If you worry about what might be, and wonder what might have been, you will ignore what is.”

This is the person that always have to point out and point his finger at people that have an opinion that is against his own or what most people think is the norm. This is the person that never have any opinons and just stays neutral in basically every subject. This is the person who don't understand that some people have different opinions. This is the person that takes everything as whining. This is the person that aren't able to get it in his head that there are other persons that are really passionate about electronic music and especially trance, which in my opinion was and is a very special genre among other electronic genres, and that now something is lost that was
exclusive to this genre. The magic, the soul, the special feel that makes trance trance.

I hope that with time, that special feeling and real trance is slowly coming back. We have to keep supporting those artist/producers that are working hard and that are making music from their hearts aimed to people that can and are enjoying slow-building,hypnotic yet entrancing,melodic and emotive trancemusic.

Modern producers should learn from these:

Originally posted by J4mie

This is the same frustrated person...

Originally posted by isrealtrancecomingback

This is the person ...

Please don't start/continue a fight here that started on another forum guys. Even though we all live it differently, we are all here for the same reason, our love for trance